Immersive and Community-Driven Travel Experiences for Older Adults

Lisa Stockdale: 00:00:36

Listeners, thank you for joining Aging in Full Bloom with Lisa Stockdale. I'm your host, Lisa, and today we're going to talk about travel for older adults.

But we're gonna sort of nuance it in a way that you might not think of. I have a guest on the line with me, Andrew, who's gonna help me do that. He has a company called the Good Life Abroad. Hi, Andrew.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:01:00

Hi, Lisa.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:01:01

How are you today? Very well.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:01:04

Thanks for having me.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:01:05

You are so welcome. So what is this all about? This idea of. I mean, everybody wants to travel when they get older and they get the time to do it. Right.

That's what we all think about doing. But you're suggesting there might be a better way to do it than just going to places that you've never been before. Tell me about it.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:01:29

Well, I won't say it's better, but I will say it's. It's different.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:01:33

Different. Okay. You want to be modest, that's fine.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:01:37

Well, our programs are a minimum of one month, and the idea is to live abroad in Europe for a month or two and really immerse yourself into the culture, but to do it in a way that has some support. So it's not quite a tour, but it's also quite. Not quite doing it by yourself and just living in an apartment. It's sort of a hybrid.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:02:00

I like that because I hate tours. Hate, hate, hate them. I don't want someone to tell me what to look at and what to think and what to ask.

But this idea of having support if you're going to go live in a different country for a month, that's appealing. So tell me a little bit about yourself before we go any further. Who are you and how did you come to be involved in this company?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:02:28

So I have been in the travel industry for about 30 years.

I started a company, I worked at different companies, and then about 20 years ago, I started my own, and I started focusing on immersive, just very immersive travel. And I think a lot of this came from the fact that after college, I was in the Peace Corps, and I lived abroad in Central America for two years.

And I sort of realized that living abroad and really immersing yourself is a very different experience than sort of just touring abroad and sort of going through the. And that led me to eventually start this very. This immersive travel company.

We started with student travel, sort of student immersion, language culture, all those things. And we eventually launched other types of programs of immersive travel for families.

And it was actually during that family travel business, which still exists, all this still exists. It's all part of one large company. I had a lot of intergenerational families coming.

So the grandparents, the kids and the grandkids, and as we all know, the grandparents are all paying for this.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:03:44

We do all know that.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:03:45

Yes, we know that.

And it was during some of these trips where I would meet with the groups and the, the older folks, the ones who are retired or semi retired, said, you know, Andrew, these tours are great. We like how immersive they are. They're off the beaten path. But you know, we're, we have time. That's the one thing we have, is time.

And isn't there anything where we could just slow it down, do a little bit more at our own pace, but still have that, that support? We enjoy having someone to turn to.

And that was one of the first sparks for this idea of a longer, semi independent, semi supported living abroad experience.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:04:25

Okay, so in a way it was need based. They were telling you what they wanted and so you rose to the occasion. So now.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:04:35

Well, I'll also say that it's a little selfish because I was thinking about my own retirement.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:04:42

Sure.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:04:42

I'm, I'm at that point in my life and I was thinking, well, what do I want to do in my retirement? And I love living in California. It's, I live in San Diego, it's a lovely place. But I also, I don't want to be an expat and completely eject.

I love living in the United States, but I would love to be able to go for a few months every year to someplace probably in Europe, maybe a month in Latin America.

But when I get there, I'd like there to be like, things to do with like friends and where I can easily connect with people who are down to do things, to explore, to play sports or go cycling. And I. So there was also a selfish element of this wanting part time live abroad.

And those two ideas, living abroad, plus this comment from one of some of our retired travelers dovetail together to really push this idea for the good life

Lisa Stockdale: 00:05:37

abroad forward makes perfect sense. And now I understand why you use the word immersive community driven travel. What does that mean?

Does that go along with what you were just saying, to have people to connect with when you're there?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:05:50

Yes. Okay, so now we're getting into like the actual program. And the Good Life abroad program is a cohort based program.

So programs start on a certain day and everyone arrives. Then we do an orientation how to live like a local and Then we break, and it's sort of independent, and we have a welcome party.

Then I think of a rooftop bar with food and drinks. But we really put a lot of emphasis on getting to know the other community members.

We call them community members, not just travelers, because for the next month, they're gonna live separately, all in the same neighborhood, or maybe sometimes in the same building, but they're gonna strike up friendships. Maybe not with everyone in the group, but you'll find people who you have shared affinities with.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:06:37

Sure.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:06:37

We think this is a big part of what the program is about, is the building of community, and so you can go off and explore independently. But then you might meet some other people who, in my case, are big music lovers, like jazz lovers.

Oh, let's go check out these jazz clubs or this student concert at the university. And that's kind of cool. Now you have sharing this with friends.

And one of the things that if you study the literature and I know you have, is especially in the second half of life, having community and having relationships is key to happiness.

And we think travel is a fun experience, but when you share it with the community, it actually amplifies the sense of joy that you have in your life when you're sharing it with others.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:07:23

And is that where you come up with this term, Joy Spanish?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:07:27

Well, I didn't come up with the term Joyce, Man. Dr. Carrie Bernadette wrote a book of that name, Joy Span, and it's a great book.

And that concept where we know about lifespan, the number of years you live, we know about health span, how many years you have health. But joy span, how many years in your life are filled with joy.

That concept has completely taken hold within our organization, and now it's required reading for all of our staff, because she talks about that. There's a few different elements for building joy in your life, and just the concept that building joy is something that everyone could do.

There are practices you can do and becomes even more important later in life, such as learning new things, adapting to new things. Right. Pushing yourself a little out of the comfort zone, and then adapting to it, facing and overcoming challenges.

Obviously, the older we get, the more challenges it seems like we're facing. And. And so.

But if you think about those things, learning, adapting, overcoming challenges, and then also sharing the joy with community, relationships, those. Those four things map perfectly onto a travel experience that's like the good life abroad or any sort of immersive travel work.

You know, learning all this new information is coming at you while you're traveling. And adapting, if you're really living in another place. I mean, all these little things we have to get used to. Right?

The smaller refrigerator, walking and taking public transportation, sort of the European way of life takes them adapting for many Americans. And then the whole idea of overcoming challenges. Right. Immersive travel, I believe, should push you a little bit out of your comfort zone.

It shouldn't break you. But it's not the Four Seasons either. The Four Seasons, you'll be very comfortable all the time, I can guarantee you that.

So you need to push, and it's not for everyone. And then this idea of community, and if you put those four elements together, it is a. Is a machine to amplify joy in your life. And that is what.

How we see what we're doing is we're trying to increase joy. Spanish for travelers 55 and older.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:09:38

Yeah, And I guess one of the things that is implied here, but you haven't said, is it's a brand new experience. And how exciting is that exactly? You know, we. We get through life. We have. I think college was a brand new experience. Right.

High school was a brand new experience. Jobs, different jobs that you have taken and the ones that you liked, you remember fondly. And then, as you say, the opportunity to learn.

I was just talking to Mommy last night, and we were talking about this. She is about to be 80. And I said, she said, you know, when you stop learning, you stop living. And I said, that is so true.

I've always said, if I stop learning, just go ahead and start burying me, because I'm done. I'm done.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:10:24

Congratulations to your mom, by the way. That's great.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:10:27

Yes, yes. Mommy is wonderful. So talk to me about the destinations, like give me the top five.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:10:36

Sure. They kind of range from some of the bigger cities in Europe to some of the smaller towns.

So the top five, let's say Florence, Italy, Wonderful small city that's very walkable. So it's perfect for living there, but has endless amounts to explore and just keep peeling back the layers of the onion. Paris, Lisbon.

Bigger cities, European capitals, but very walkable. Great public transportation as well. Valencia, Spain. Now that's great.

We have a lot of snowbirds, people in the northern states that want to get out of Dodge in February and go to a place that's sunny and has not just beaches, but it has the history. It's actually third. Spain's third biggest city. Many people don't realize that.

So it has everything a city would need, but it's much smaller and very manageable. And then we even have programs in Northern Europe in Vienna, Prague and Eastern Europe. Split, like Split Croatia.

So you have a good mix of things across Europe.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:11:37

And are they mostly European destinations? Because I think I heard you mention Latin America.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:11:44

The Good Life Abroad only operates firms currently in Europe. Latin America is just a personal interest of mine.

And who's to say at some point in the future we don't expand to other parts of the world, but for now it's just Europe.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:11:57

Yeah, yeah. And so It's a month, 30 days that you go.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:12:04

Correct.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:12:05

And you, I presume, do all of the arrangements.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:12:10

Yeah. So people arrive and even before we arrive, we do a zoom meeting.

And so everyone in the cohort meets, meet along with our community manager, that's our local staff person in that country. And we get to know each other when they arrive. We go to orientation.

We provide your apartment, which is a fully equipped apartment with pots and pans, dishes and whatnot, air conditioning. As I mentioned, people either live in the same building or in the exact same neighborhood just a few minutes walking from each other.

We provide our local, the support of the local community manager.

And that person is sort of key because they get to know each person and they actually meet with each person one on one to understand what do you want to get out of this month and help make a plan, a kind of action plan for that month to get them to accomplish all the things they want. So that community manager is a key person. They organize our happy hours and cooking classes and lunches and walking tours.

And all these activities are kind of sprinkled throughout the month. Again, it's not a tour, so every day is not packed. It's just things here and there. About three times a week we do some kind of activity.

But that community manager is also available by text message Monday through Friday, 9 to 5.

So it's sort of like having a friend who lives in that city that you can text and ask questions like, oh, hey, I want to go to this other town nearby. What's the best way to do that? Or hey, do you recommend a great restaurant in this neighborhood? Or something like that?

Lisa Stockdale: 00:13:35

Got you.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:13:36

And we provide medical insurance while you're there. And we have access and connections to local English speaking medical care. So that's the whole point.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:13:45

My next question, like, what happens if you get sick? What do people do for health care? So you've got that covered?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:13:53

We've got that covered. And I think that's something people should consider if they even want to do this on their own. Like not with a Good life abroad.

Sometimes like, oh, I want to just go rent an apartment and go off to someplace.

Well, one of the things that we spend a lot of time on is risk management and sort of preparing a plan based at different levels of severity of incidents. Because the time to figure out your health plan is not when something happens in your urgent need of care.

You, you know, you roll your ankle walking down some cobblestone. So our staff has plans in place based on level of severity and connections to places that have English speaking medical care.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:14:32

What other risk factors would do people think about or consider when they're making a decision to do something like this outside of health care?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:14:42

Well, mobility is a big question in general because many of these European cities are very old, I mean hundreds of years old, and don't have the same sort of ADA regulations we have in the States. And so we tell people you must be able to walk on uneven surfaces for at least two miles. Cobblestones are very common.

You need to be able to walk up two flights of stairs even though the buildings that we have, the apartments have elevators. But there's going to be many places where often there won't be an elevator and you'd have to walk up some amount of stairs.

And so we think that's very important.

And then the thing that most people worry about because again, we're a program for people 55 and older is having aging parents and being away from them. If something were to happen or just often between the time I booked this trip and the time I actually go, might I need a new hip. So life happens.

And so that's something people think about a lot. And we encourage people for that reason to get like trip cancellation insurance.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:15:45

Got you. Okay, so, so you need to be mobile fit, I will call it, you have to have a passport and you got to have some money.

How much does the average trip cost for a month?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:16:00

Yeah, see, let's say the kind of Midpoint is about 5,500 maybe to $6,000 for a person to go for a month. And that includes all the activities and meals and classes that are part of the scheduled program.

Now that said, big caveat, you go to a city like London or Paris, it's going to be a lot more. It could be double. And you go to a city like Split, Croatia, it could be less because it's more of an Eastern European, more affordable destination.

That's sort of a midpoint.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:16:33

Well, that's really not as bad as I thought. I was expecting a much bigger number, so.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:16:41

Yeah, yeah, a Lot of people who do like sort of the river cruises in Europe, those are, you know, taking a similar destinations. They're quite surprised. They'll say, Andrew, that's like not even as much as I'd spend for a 10 day river cruise. And I'm.

You're giving us this month long experience.

Now of course not all your meals are included, but that's part of the, the fun of it too is going to the market and making your dish that you learn in the cooking class, etc.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:17:07

Yeah. So what else do you have besides cooking classes and walking?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:17:13

Yeah, every opportunities is we do different things to introduce the local culture to our, our communities. And so often there'll be a historical walking tour, there will be a cooking class, maybe an arts workshop, some kind of painting workshop.

For example, in Lisbon they, they paint those beautiful Portuguese tiles. You know, everyone makes their own and takes it home. We have these happy hours every week.

But the happy hours are also a way to teach people about the culture. In Barcelona, for example, the Spanish take their vermouth very seriously.

And in Barcelona they have a class where they learn about vermouth, they sample some vermouth, but then they get to make their own concoction. They have all these different inputs to make a bottle of vermouth that's their very own invention and they could take it home as a souvenir.

So it's a nice way to learn with the culture, have fun as a group and also get a little souvenir out of the experience.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:18:12

And so yeah, you, mostly you're, well, I guess you are preparing your own meals the whole time unless you decide to dine out. Correct?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:18:22

Correct. Correct. Now, every Tuesday we do have a tradition called our Tuesday lunch club.

And that's where we include a lunch where we pick some place that's probably someplace you wouldn't go on your own and it might even be in a neighboring town. And we'll preorder a bunch of food for you to try new things.

And then you can also have a chance to order your own main dish and the wine is flowing, you're getting to know people and that's beautiful because it's a way to get to know a new part of town. It's a way to get to know new food. But also because we don't schedule anything during Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday.

People have been off exploring for four days and they come back and meet their friends on Tuesdays. Hey, what have you been up to? Oh, we went here. We discovered the best gelato place or and they're sharing experience.

And it's a time for the community to come together and celebrate.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:19:12

And I suspect some parts of the year, some months are more popular than others. So what are the most popular months to travel?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:19:22

Well, the beauty of being retired or semi retired is we can be like Goldilocks. Right. We don't want to go when it's too hot. We don't want to go when it's too cold. We want to go when it's just right.

So for us, it's the shoulder seasons now. People are watching.

So the people who want to get out of the cold actually will go with us in January, February to some of the southern Mediterranean destinations. Then March, April may become very popular a little bit in June. And in July and August, we don't offer many programs at all, actually, because.

Too hot, too crowded. Yeah, we do. We do have a couple. I think we do Vienna and Prague up in Northern Europe. Lisbon is pretty temperate.

I think we do July and August there, but just a few places and then it picks back up. September, October, November are really big for us. And then it's in December, we rest.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:20:14

Sure. And how far in advance would you be making these reservations?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:20:21

People book on average 9 to 12 months. I think some people are real planners, so they're booking a year or maybe even more in advance.

But I think on average people are booking nine months in advance. And yeah, I would encourage you not to wait too long. I think three, four months in advance gets the cutting a little close.

ny cities already for most of: 2026

Lisa Stockdale: 00:20:46

Yeah.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:20:47

d people are starting to book: 2027

Lisa Stockdale: 00:20:49

Right. Wow, this is, it's interesting. I have to admit, I had no idea what community driven travel was when I saw it.

I'm like, okay, I guess Andrew will explain it to me. That's how we'll do that. What else do you want our listeners to know about this company, this opportunity, the good life abroad?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:21:15

Well, I think I don't need to talk more about the company. I just encourage people when they're doing their travel to be. To have some intentionality behind it.

Checklist travel is fine and there's a place and a time for it. But if you have, especially as we get older, being curious and saying, I want to.

I want to explore this interest or this thing I'm curious about, it's a great way to travel.

Now in the good life abroad, it's great because our community manager can then connect you to resources while you're there to really scratch at us and go deep into whatever it is. Food, art, history, language. But even if you travel on your own, I think having an intention is great.

And I think the thing I've really learned from this is if you're, even if you're traveling on your own, trying to build community as you go, it just amplifies and expands the joy that comes with travel. And if you can't travel for whatever reason, these are all things you can do back at home.

Learn, adapt, try new things, struggle with it and overcome it. So joy is something that everyone should be able to experience in their life. That's my takeaway.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:22:26

Well, that is. That's pretty powerful.

And this idea that we build joy, we don't wait for it to happen to us or expect it only at certain, in certain, certain parts of life. It can be wherever you build it. Even if it's, as you say, 55 or after, and maybe it's 85 or after, we don't know.

So I know you don't want to talk too much more about the company, but how would someone.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:22:54

Oh, I'm happy to. I can also go.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:22:57

How would someone go about getting in touch with you? And even though you're in California, it doesn't matter. Right? I'm sure you can help anybody.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:23:07

We can help anyone. The best way to reach us is to go to our website, the Good Life Abroad dot com.

And if they wanted to reach me specifically, it's Andrew at the Good Life Abroad dot com. And we have a team of people across the United States. We're headquartered in San Diego, California, but we are a remote team.

So we have people on the east coast and go west coast. And we even. We have a lot of staff in Europe. So we can meet you wherever you are and help you live out your dream of living abroad.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:23:39

And just one last thing I want to clarify before we go, Andrew, the person that is in the community, that's a local person that is providing you support and information.

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:23:53

Yes, that's correct. That's a local person. Our community manager.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:23:58

Yeah, exactly. And what is your role? What is your title at the Good Life Abroad?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:24:03

I'm the founder and CEO. So when things go wrong, it comes to me. When things go right, it's my team on the field that get all the credit. That's what the CEO does.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:24:14

That's. You know what, that's what someone taught me a long time ago. Leader. This. This is what he said. Leadership is about taking the blame for everything.

And when things go right, delegating the credit to your team. So that tells me you're a good leader. Andrew, thank you so much. Any closing thoughts that we have missed?

Andrew Motiwalla: 00:24:37

I think we got it all. Wherever you are, you deserve the good life. That's my motto.

Lisa Stockdale: 00:24:43

Wherever you are, you deserve the good life. Amen. Matt. Listeners, till next time. May the road rise to meet you. May the wind be forever at your back.